Hi Everyone
I thought I would set up an area where questions can be asked about the view that God will Reconcile All through Christ Eventually.
Questions relating to a topic already posted can be asked and discussed in the Comments section attached to that posting, but we need a space for general questions or for questions relating to topics for which there is not yet a posting. So here it is.
Just add questions in the Comments section of this post, and discussion can continue there also.
For if God did not spare the angels who sinned...and did not spare the ancient world... making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly...then the Lord knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations and to reserve the unjust under punishment for the day of judgment. From 2 Peter 2:4-9 (NKJ)
Have just been reading all your blogs about God being a loving God who will save all , then the daily email I get had this as an opener ... wondering if it is a literal translation..just a coincidence it turned up ...how does this fit in ???
love Lizzie
Hi Lizzie
ReplyDeleteThanks for your comment and question.
Judgement and punishment are indeed real, they just don't last forever as is usually taught by mainstream christianity.
As a Mum, you would understand that making judgements about your son's behaviour is normal and punishment for poor behaviour is equally normal. Indeed if you didn't do these things your love for your son would be rightly questioned.
The punishment is, of course, designed to bring your son to repentance (change of behaviour, attitude, etc.) and only lasts as long as it takes to bring this about.
Infinite punishment for finite misdemeanours would be cruel and unbecoming for a loving parent, even more so for a loving heavenly father, the most loving and perfect parent of all.
Eventually all will be changed. Already the sins of everyone have been paid for by Jesus at Calvary and progressively all will eventually repent and be reconciled to their heavenly father; a relative few while they are still physically alive on this planet, the majority later at the end of the ages.
Hope this has answered what you had in mind. If not, throw it back to me again. If my answer raises more questions or you feel needs to be challenged, please get stuck into it.
Is it OK with you if we put this discussion up on the blogsite?
If you are happy with that, I will attach this to a post up there, and if you could always do that, our small community of bloggers can keep in touch with all the discussions that are happening.
Of course anything personal can be discussed by direct email, as always.
Love Barry
and then this .....2 Peter chapter 3.
ReplyDeleteWhat is the literal translation of the word perdition in verse 7?
Lizzie.
Hi Lizzie
ReplyDeleteThe quick answer is "perdition" means "destruction, ruin or loss".
But I am assuming your question is also begging other questions like, "If ungodly men are going to be destroyed, how will everyone be saved, as you state in your blogs?"
So I will answer this question briefly here and hope I have cut off a few others "at the pass".
2 Peter 3 is most often interpreted as referring to the end of our physical world and God's destructive punishment of the baddies. I believe this is not referring to the end of the world at all, nor does God punish baddies destructively, but remedially, as I shared in the last answer above.
By looking at the context of this chapter and other related texts, Peter is not talking about the end of the physical world, but the end of the Old Covenant or Jewish world or age that occurred with the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70.
Verses 1 and 2. Peter is wanting to remind his readers of what their prophets had said. Only the Jews had the holy prophets and those prophets never spoke of the end of the physical world, but of the destruction of the Jewish world.
Verse 3. The last days are the last days of that Jewish world.
Verse 4. I see two options here. Most of the Jews were still looking for the coming of the Messiah, not believing Jesus was he, and therefore were scoffing at God's promise that he would come. The other option is that Jesus said he would be returning in judgement within the lifetime of those he spoke to, and that generation was drawing to a close by the time Peter wrote this letter in the AD60's, hence the scoffing.
Verses 5, 6 and 7. Interesting comparison and contrast here. The world destroyed by water was not the physical world - it still exists today - but the unbelieving people of that world. Those people were physically removed from it by the flood. Now Peter is pointing out that the present world, the present heaven and earth, the unbelieving people of the then present Jewish world, would also be physically removed, but this time by fire.
Malachi 4 predicted this, as did John the Baptist in Matthew 3 : 10 - 12. The Jewish Christians of Peter's day were clearly expecting it (verse 14) and were warned to live in a way that avoided it (verses 17 and 18).
And we know that this happened in AD70. So this is in the past, and of significance only to the Jewish generation of the first century. See Matthew 24 : 34 for Jesus' warning and note the colourful (apocalyptic) language he used to describe this event in the surrounding verses.
Although they were destroyed (physically) they will be resurrected for judgement and for refining (bringing to faith and repentance) in the future, as will all who leave this planet as unbelievers.
here's another one ...
ReplyDelete"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." John 3:36
what was the original word WRATH in Greek ??
love Lizzie
Hi Lizzie
ReplyDeleteThe short answer.
The Greek word that gets translated "wrath" in this verse is "orge" which originally meant a desire or violent passion. Consequently it came to mean anger or indignation or wrath.
The longer answer.
So, what does John 3 : 36 mean?
First, you will hear me say this a lot - the word "eternal" is a bad, misleading translation of the underlying Greek word "aionios" in this and many other verses. The phrase "eternal life" or "eternal punishment" does not occur in the Greek NT. Not even once. Please read a previous post called "Age versus Eternity" for more details about this.
So John 3 : 36 really says, "He who believes in the Son has life during the age; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life (then), but the indignation of God abides on him."
Life during the age is life in the next age, the Millenium age. In that age believers will live and reign with Christ, but unbelievers (disobeyers) will not and God's indignation will remain on them.
The believers are those who will be in the first resurrection, while the unbelievers will be in the second resurrection, which is after the Millenium (see Revelation 20 : 4 - 6).
The unbelievers will then be judged, brought to faith and repentance, and reconciled to God, but will not have life or fellowship with God during the Millenium age.
Barry